JDE’s continuing comprehensive post on manners!

by John Elliott on March 24th, 2009

THERE’S A TIME AND A PLACE… AND THIS ISN’T ONE OF THEM, INTERNATIONAL ETIQUETTE EXPERT IN AUSTRALIA TO FANCY US UP

Astounding statistics from the ‘McDonald’s Mealtime Manners’ survey have revealed that Aussies love to burp at the dinner table and even lick their plate.



Surprised by the results, McDonald’s Australia is flying in etiquette guru Gill Harbord to give the whole country a lesson in good old-fashioned manners!

McDonald’s has teamed up with the terrifying teacher to launch its new Angus Beef range and prepare Australia for a fancy dining experience they will never forget – the new Angus Beef range is just a little more fancy than your usual burger and Gill Harbord is on hand to ensure that Australians are up to scratch with their mealtime etiquette.

“There is nothing wrong with having a more casual attitude to mealtimes when dining with close friends or at home. However when we are asked to step up to a more fine dining experience, there are certain things we should be aware of, and burping or licking knives is simply not appropriate or acceptable,” said Gill Harbord, known as the headmistress of Eggleston Hall on the popular TV series Ladette to Lady.

Key Findings from the Galaxy Research Report

What Australians admit to doing at the dinner table:

• 87% rest elbows on the table
• 73% reach in front of someone
• 68% eat before everyone is served
• 64% answer their mobile phone
• 49% lick their knife
• 35% lick their plate

How we generally feel about our own etiquette:

• 57% believe they would benefit from etiquette lessons
• 65% claim their own friends would benefit from lessons
• 53% wish their colleagues would review their mealtime manners
• Approximately half believe their family need mealtime hints and tips
• One in five thinks even their grandma acts inappropriately at the dinner table

Australians consider taste to be the most important element in a fancy dining experience:

• 99% consider taste to be a very important factor
• 34% believe service quality is quite important
• 46% think the atmosphere is quite important
• 46% rate portion sizes as a quite important element

What we’d expect to see served at a fine dining establishment:

• 65% consider Angus Beef with an onion relish a superior quality meal
• 38% mentioned veal parmigiana
• 20% believe a chicken salad is superior quality
• 11% went Italian with a Spaghetti Bolognese
• 5% couldn’t but help resist the traditional Bangers and Mash

Gill Harbord Etiquette Tips for a Fancy Dining Experience (whether attending or hosting)

The glass is placed to the right of the place setting, to the right of the furthest utensil. Since most people are right-handed, the handle should face to the right

At the completion of a meal, carefully place the napkin at the left of your place setting or if the plates have been cleared, place the napkin in the centre without actually refolding to original state

Turn the mobile phone off — completely — during a luncheon meeting or social function

Should a lady wish to be excused for the bathroom, it is polite for the gentlemen to stand up as she leaves the table, sit down again, and then stand once more when she returns

Loud eating noises such as slurping and burping are very impolite and are the number one sin of dinner table etiquette

If hosting your own fancy dinner party be sure to serve your guests a more premium meal – they have come for a superior quality experience so don’t hold back on the fancy

Great taste is still the most important aspect of your meal so ensure anything you serve is something you’re proud to stand by
Don’t stretch across the table crossing other guests to reach food, wine or condiments. Instead ask a guest sitting close to pass the item to you

Fine dining is not restricted to the dinner table. Hold the door — whether male or female, hold open a door you have just passed through for the person behind you

Click here to read the Unspeakable Eaters article

The Grand Angus™ and Mighty Angus™ burgers feature 100% Australian beef produced by Australian farmers, whom McDonald’s has proudly supported for over 30 years. Both burgers feature thick and juicy Angus Beef that is independently verified by Certified Australian Angus Beef Pty Ltd (CAAB).

Material courtesy of the Herald Sun, McDonald’s Australia and Zing (PR Agency of the Year).

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TABLE MANNERS

Australians have terrible table manners, however not as bad as Americans, who have none at all.

Having stayed with British Royalty and been briefed accordingly, and dined in the greatest restaurants around the world, I want to make the following points to help to improve the table manners of Australians.

• The most important guest should be placed on the right of the host, and the second most important on the left.

• As you take your seat as a guest you should pull out the chair for the ladies on your right and left, and not sit down until they are comfortably seated.

• Immediately you are seated you should take your serviette/napkin and place it on your lap. It is embarrassing to see the waiters having to do it as it shows your bad manners.

• When food is being served it should firstly be served to the person on the right of the host then the person on the left, and then continue by serving second from the left.

• If a cold dish is served you should not commence eating until all parties have been served.

• If a hot dish is served you should start your meal immediately. This is one of the biggest faults of Australians. They wait until everybody gets served and the food goes cold.

• Holding your knife and fork is another important facet to good manners. The fork and knife should be held with each forefinger placed on the top, you should not hold your knife like a pencil, this highlights poor breeding.

• You must put your knife and fork down when you are not eating.

• Don’t chew your food with your mouth open.

• If you are drinking a bowl of soup and getting near the end you should tip the bowl away from you to finish the soup. (Originally established so you would not spill soup on yourself)

MORE TABLE MANNERS
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Rolls and bread

Rolls are broken open with your fingers, not cut open with a knife.

Butter, if being used, should be placed on the side plate, not directly on to the roll or the bread. Tear off a small piece of the roll or bread and butter it on the plate.

Cutlery

The position of the cutlery at each place is governed by two basic rules. The first one is that the forks go on the left and the knives and spoons on the right. The second is that the diner starts with the implements on the outside and, course by course, works inwards to the centre.

Candles

Candlelight is indispensable both for setting the mood and making the table – and the people round it – look their best. Its softness cannot be duplicated by electricity. Whether candelabra or candlesticks are used is up to the hostess but, as a rule, the shorter the candlestick the taller the candle.

At a formal dinner party the candles are normally white and at all dinner parties there must be enough light, either from candles or from the candles plus electric light, for people to see what they are doing. The mood of a too subtly-lit dinner table is gloom.

Flowers

Flowers on the dining table should be short-stemmed, as a tall centrepiece will screen diners from the people sitting opposite them.

Clearing the table

It is customary to clear away all plates, used glasses, salt and epper pots, and any unused cutlery from the table before the pudding (or cheese) is served. At a formal meal this would certainly be done; at an informal one it is up to the hostess to decide how much she wants to comply with tradition.

Behaviour at the table

Paradoxically, a guest at table should try and make others forget that he is eating. He eats and drinks quietly and without fuss, does not, of course, talk with his mouth full, avoids looking greedy, and also avoids eating so slowly that the progress of the meal is held up.

Second helpings

It used to be the rule that second helpings of food were not offered at dinner parties. This, however, has changed and, depending on the nature and quantity of the food left, the vast majority of hostesses offer second helpings. When offered a second helping, there is no need to feel ashamed of saying “Yes”, your enjoyment is a compliment to your hostess (especially if she has also been the cook). But everyone is free to refuse.

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EATING IN THE STREET

No one brings their lunch to work any longer and eats at their desk. Many office employees and others purchase take away food from the ever increasing outlets in capital cities and every country town. In the cities I see so many people walking down the street eating their lunch and even eating while using public transport. It is unacceptable behaviour. Sit down and eat your lunch. Do not eat on public transport. Watch the Channel 9 news clip shown last Thursday evening (April, 2) during the 6 o’clock news.

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TRAVELLING ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT

Where have all the manners gone? Children no longer stand up for adults. Men no longer stand up and give their seats to ladies. Males do not let ladies enter or leave public transport first. This is appalling. Be considerate of others.

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WALKING DOWN THE STREET

The woman should always be on the inside of the footpath and the man closest to the road – to protect her.

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TURN OFF THE TELEVISION WHEN EATING!

I was very taken with Coral-Anne Croker’s comments on manners as follows:

“I think you are directing your criticism at the supposedly educated end of town. How sad that these common courtesies are unknown amongst some of the offspring of Australia’s wealthy sector. What hope then for the kids from the poorer areas, who do not eat together at a family meal table. Cannot use knives and forks (thanks to the US constant onslaught or right hand fork control), These kids parents do not cook, purchase cheaper unhealthy microwave meals or oven reheated meals, and eat whenever and where-ever the hunger burst takes hold. We are a nation who walk the streets of the CBD eating as we walk. The entire significance of the meal as celbration and communal bonding has been lost. Can refining manners really meet this challenge? I think not.”

It made me think about how we can return the meal to a celebration and communal bonding. The first thing is you should turn off the television. Never eat in front of the TV! It is very bad manners. You should not eat alone but sit at a table which has been properly set, with others, and have a conversation, hopefully stimulating. Invite your friends over for dinner. Families should eat together.

I think every company that advertises people eating in front of the TV should be complained about and people should not buy their products. I plan to put them up on the website as duds. Television companies should not accept advertisements of people eating in front of the TV. Because I do not watch very much TV, other than news and sport, I would appreciate your contributions when you notice ads that conform to the above. Let me know and we will criticise them on the website.

This is a good start to ensure the significance of the meal as a celebration and communal bonding.

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APPROPRIATE DRESS

Men’s dress

If you wear a striped suit you should never wear a striped tie or shirt. If you wear a plain suit you should never wear a striped shirt and striped tie Only one of the three, either shirt, tie, suit should be striped.

When you wear a belt it should be the same colour as your shoes, i.e. if you wear a black belt you should wear black shoes – if your wear a brown belt then the shoes should be brown.

Women

When they ask you for your opinion of their dress, always say you look fantastic, if you don’t they will go and change their clothes and you will be later than you expected to wherever you are going.

37 Responses

  1. Ray Davis says:

    The path starts in the home,and if you parents don’t keep on knowing where you go what you get up to,monitor who you knock about with, giving you a biff now and again to keep you on the straight and narrow ,chances are you are going to turn into a bloody good bloke.
    I started school at yarra park primary school 1945 ( apartments now) I dont think there was a day i wasn’t in trouble,I was a red headed bloody strap magnet. Every day when my father came home from work he would ask me..how was school today,
    I only complained once about the strap i had wrapped around my legs by the teacher,because he gave me a another dose saying I must have deserved it,so i never complained to him again.And so on it went through richmond tech school years.When I look back I laughto myself and wished to christ I had him back,just for a chat,I hold no malice towards mum and dad,they did a bloody good job on me I reckon,made me a hard worker,(worked with dad cleaning millions of bricks after school for an extra quid for food & clothes,never any toys but allways warm and a full belly,Married,one son in the services,lifes been good to me and I owe it all to my upbringing by mum and dad

  2. ant says:

    Table manners are a huge issue. We are heading down the American path: Americans, quite simply, have no knowledge of table manners whatsoever. They have no notion that being disgusting and pig-like is a bad thing. and we are following them, as we do in most things. The bogans are prevailing, and we are becoming a gross nation of pig-like eaters.

  3. John Tomor says:

    I like you, John; but really!

    I don’t mean to be disrespectful but there are more important issues in the big scheme of things. In this world, there’s a greater reality to be contemplated than the matching of the colour of my shoelaces with that of my leather wristwatch band.

    Regards,

    John Tomor

  4. Lenny Negro says:

    Well done Jack!
    In Australia we don’t have a clue about fashion, you just have to look at our teenagers and that damned ‘hip hop’ fashion. Jeans below their bums and enough hem to make another pair of jeans. “I don’t care what brand of underwear you wear!”
    The sooner we stop copying the American fashion the better.
    I have travelled the world and the European teenagers put ours to shame with dress sense. At worst they would wear a good pair of jeans (no holes) casual shoes (not runners) and a nice t-shirt.

    As for the fashion tip with the stripes, belts and shoes-spot on Jack!

    Keep up the good work and love this website

  5. Sigmund von Arnsdorf says:

    This may be important when eating with Eskimos; always hold your meat with your left hand and cut with your right as you hold one end of the meat in your teeth; cut downwards, so as to avoid injuring your nose. Burping is not required but should always be practiced when dining with most Arabian tribes. Practice.
    Olive pips may be disposed of into pot plants only when nobody is looking. Flicking them over your shoulders is considered bad manners in Central Europe. Make sure the window is open as you toss them outside.

  6. John W Webb says:

    Motivational and Inspirational Quotes about “Good Manners”
    Eric Hoffer
    Rudeness is a weak imitation of strength.
    ________________________________________
    Voltaire
    We cannot always oblige; but we can always speak obligingly.
    ________________________________________
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    The basis of good manners is self-reliance.
    ________________________________________
    Marcus Tulius Cicero
    A man’s own manner and character is what most becomes him.
    ________________________________________
    Confucius
    Consideration for others is the basic of a good life, a good society.
    ________________________________________
    Arthur Schopenhauer
    Politeness is to human nature what warmth is to wax.
    ________________________________________
    Wendell L. Willkie
    The test of good manners is to be able to put up pleasantly with bad ones.
    ________________________________________
    Clarence Thomas
    Good manners will open doors that the best education cannot.
    ________________________________________
    Jonathan Swift
    Good manners is the art of making those people easy with whom we converse. Whoever makes the fewest people uneasy is the best bred in the room.
    ________________________________________
    Laurence Sterne
    Respect for ourselves guides our morals; respect for others guides our manners.

    Og Mandino
    I seek constantly to improve my manners and graces, for they are the sugar to which all are attracted.
    ________________________________________
    H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
    Good manners sometimes means simply putting up with other people’s bad manners.
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    Arthur Ashe
    Clothes and manners do not make the man; but when he is made, they greatly improve his appearance.
    ________________________________________
    R. Buckminster Fuller
    Parents are usually more careful to bestow knowledge on their children rather than virtue, the art of speaking well rather than doing well; but their manners should be of the greatest concern.
    ________________________________________
    John Cassis
    It’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.
    ________________________________________
    Horace Mann
    Manners easily and rapidly mature into morals.
    ________________________________________
    Emily Post
    Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use.
    ________________________________________
    Fred Astaire
    The hardest job kids face today is learning good manners without seeing any.
    ________________________________________
    Mary Wortley Montague
    Civility costs nothing and buys everything.
    ________________________________________
    Edmund Burke
    Manners are of more importance than laws. Manners are what vex or soothe, corrupt or purify, exalt or debase, barbarize or refine us, by a constant, steady, uniform, insensible operation, like that of the air we breathe in.

    Manners are a very important point of our lives and the Education process is the one in charge with our manners.

    Eating with an open mouth, disrespecting other people, farting or burping in public, leaving the dinner plate on the table and so on are just a few of the situations that confirms you have no manners.

    Manners show who you are… and as long as manners and respect cost nothing, there is no excuse for them…

    what do you think? Are good manners important for you?

    A Texan, a Russian and New Yorker went out to eat. Their waiter came to
    the table and said, “Excuse me, but due to a shortage, we can not serve meat today.”
    The Texan said, “I don’t understand. What is a shortage?”
    The Russian said, “I don’t understand. What is meat?”
    The New Yorker said, “I don’t understand. What is ‘Excuse me’?”

    Tyson’s Manners
    Mike Tyson finally apologized to Holyfield for biting off his ear.
    He said, “Believe it or not, I have learned many things about how to behave in society while I was in jail. So I would like to apologize to Mr. Holyfield for biting his ear in such a beastly way. Next time I promise to use a knife and fork.”

    FUNNY WINSTON CHURCHILL QUOTES

    When I am abroad I always make it a rule never to criticise or attack the Government of my country. I make up for lost time when I am at home.
    “A sheep in sheep’s clothing”
    On Clement Atlee
    A modest man, who has much to be modest about
    On Clement Atlee
    “An empty taxi arrived at 10 Downing Street, and when the door was opened, Atlee got out”
    On Clement Atlee
    “I wish Stanley Baldwin no ill, but it would have been much better if he had never lived”
    On Stanley Baldwin
    “He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened”
    On Stanley Baldwin
    “He looked at foreign affairs through the wrong end of a municipal drainpipe”
    On Neville Chamberlain
    “What could you hope to achieve except to be sunk in a bigger and more expensive ship this time”
    On Admiral Mountbatten

    G. K. Chesterton’s corpulence occasionally afforded him unusual opportunities for gallantry: “Just the other day in the Underground,” he once declared, “I enjoyed the pleasure of offering my seat to three ladies.”

  7. Linda says:

    When I moved to Sydney from country NSW I was shocked to see people I considered polite and well-mannered show a complete disregard for others when in public. I recall a friend barging through a shopping centre door with no regard for anyone else going through at the same time, and allowing the door to slam in their faces; and other friends simply dropping empty plastic cups on the ground at the races and music festivals. I wondered if I was the only person who could see the mess they were all walking around in! That was almost 20 years ago.

    BTW Arthur, if you are to do a good deed, don’t do it for the reward. Do it because it is the right thing to do.

  8. James K says:

    Greetings John,

    Just a question in regards to protocol at ‘gents clubs’

    Is it appropriate to request another member to get you a drink or throw another log on the fire?

    Regards

  9. Arthur McKenzie says:

    Have you ever noticed it is only the ugly women who don’t say thanks or otherwise acknowledge us when we hold the door open for them?

  10. Aaron says:

    John,
    You mentioned that it is alright to lift a bowl to finish the remainder of the contents. What about licking the bowl or a plate for that matter, is that going a bit far or could that be acceptable in some places? It does reduce wasteage after all in these current financially difficult and environmentally aware times.
    Regards,
    Aaron.

  11. JP says:

    Hi John
    Thanks for the manners insights .. they are appreciated ..
    but have you recently been on public transport at peak hour and tried stopping to let the ladies alight first ? A very difficult task..

  12. Ray Davis says:

    It all starts in the home.

  13. Willoughby says:

    Hello John,
    your son wedded my eldest daughter a few years ago. A huge, lavish and fairy tale wedding. A beautiful day I believe.
    Manners – father of the bride and was never invited, nor the half brothers and sister.
    As you are well aware families divide and move on. I am decent, hard working, and caring father of 5.
    Manners.
    regards,
    Willo

  14. Luke says:

    Donald,

    I agree, some advice should be passed on to Kruddy re his manners. This just proves that since he became Prime Minister he is more and more out of touch with the ordinary Australian.

    There is a saying that “Attitude is a reflection of Leadership” so the change needs to start all the way at the top, with Krudd right down to the little aussie battler

  15. Donald says:

    John,

    Do you think some of this advice could be forwarded to Mr K. Rudd ?
    His treatment of his staff leaves so much to be desired that they desire to leave so much!

    We were always told that it is a cardinal sin to ever be rude to your own staff, no matter what. It is the very epitomy of poor form and a bog-peasant background, and is unforgivable. It would seem he may profit from such help, but his insecurity and arrogance may well intervene.

  16. John says:

    John,
    How do you tell who is the most important person (to be put on your right) without offending someone else?

  17. Tracey says:

    Hi John,

    I’m from NSW and I am vaguely familiar with your name and identity. I’m 36 years old and yesterday I was listening to you on 2GB and I too am appalled on the “manners” of people only slightly younger than myself. I am now the parent of a 2 year old and I received the best compliment from a stranger in a restaurant recently, who told me I had a very well mannered daughter, my daughter is not allowed to get up and run amok in any dining place we go to, she says please and thankyou like a pro. It doesn’t take much to teach children that you need manners to get anywhere in life. I recall an instance many years ago when I was at a very busy bar and I waited my turn to be served, eventually when I was served I said thankyou and walked away, but the next time the barmaid saw me, she got my drink for me before I even ordered it and didn’t want to be paid I asked her why she did that and she said that I was the only customer that had thanked her all night.

    It doesn’t take much to give up your seat for a pregnant woman or an elderly person, too keep to the left when walking on the footpath, escalators etc and it doesn’t take much to say please and thankyou.

    It’s about time someone told Australians that their manners are awful.

  18. ad says:

    If a hot dish is served you should start your meal immediately. This is one of the biggest faults of Australians. They wait until everybody gets served and the food goes cold.

    you must go to some pretty average restaurants – this should never happen

    perhaps you need some education you buffoon

  19. Lisa says:

    Manners, in general, are missing today.

  20. alli says:

    Can you also post some footage of examples??!!

  21. FRANKIE says:

    Hi John:

    I am so highly excited to see you back on the Business bandwagon, as I believe in never giving up and standing up and dusting off oneself and start again, its never over till ones dead.
    I always wanted to be one of your apprentices, teach me all the wrong ways of doing business and most importantly all the ways to avoid them, but I have been knocked back and told to go away by many of your “Gate Keepers”.
    John, I wonder if you would accept to take me as your Student for as long as it takes to learn how to succeed in Business, I have never known how,
    I have tried many times, but I still haven’t cracked it yet,
    I have many amazing skills and I am diamond sales manager, with excellent sales track records, and many success stories working for someone else, when it came to my own business ideas, I just have not made a break through to being as successful.
    My Guarantee to you is, I will never give up, and I will be damn appreciative to anything you will teach me, and you never know, maybe you and I can be amazingly successful in the future and this can be as beneficial to you as it is it is for me, and you can Guarantee that i will forever be in your debt. just by talking to me for a day, you would be saving me so much time and money if i can have you as my master to show me the way and I would be willing to start from the bottom up.
    You say Jump, I say how high.

    What do you say John?

    You can contact me on my numbers bellow,

    Warm regards

    Frankie McDad

  22. PJ Garn says:

    John

    Just heard you interviewed on 2GB… well done on your new site and bringing to attention many of the issues that frustrate the hell out of me. With regard to manners (especially of the table type) these were instilled in me from a young age. As parents of a two-and-a-half year old, we are now back at the table training our little fella!!!

    I made an observation whilst dining at a fast food restaurant on Saturday last; a young guy and his girlfriend ate at a table behind us and upon finishing their meal merely stood up and left without disposing of their rubbish in the bin (which they past on the way out the door)… I couldn’t resist and past comment as my wife cringed in the booth across from me. Unfortunately this fell on deaf ears and the pig and his sow made their way to their mobile sty!!!!

    I would like to see your site perhaps open a discussion on words used in todays language that frustrate and annoy… I have a few that I keep hearing in the media and everyday life. Some examples… “Absolutely” used in the affirmative; everybody seems to be “Vulnerable” (often pronounced VUNERABLE); and finally “Definitely” also used in the affirmative and pronounced DEFINLY!!!!! What are your thoughts????

    Cheers

    PJ Garn

  23. Mat says:

    I recall attending one of your functions as a waiter in the early 1990′s that was both your birthday and company get together at your rural retreat north of Melbourne. A large cake, decorated as a Fosters beer can was presented to your table. A gasp of disbelief and horror was heard across the dinning marque as you, fist clenched, welded from above your head, a large knife, and stabbed your cake.

  24. Keith says:

    “You should not hold your knife like a pencil”. Good advice, Jack. But few kids today know what a pencil is, and fewer still know how to hold one. Look at the beautiful signatures of Paul Keating and John Howard – goodness knows what the signature of our 2030 PM will look like. Hope that over time you can extend your manners column beyond dining into other aspects of civilised behaviour

    (Love that gravely voice!)

  25. Michael says:

    Nice to see someone speak out about manners! Those of us older than Gen Y should at least know about manners, and hopefully choose to use them. Nice job John. I must confess a little confusion about your article here and your public persona of the past. (The man who made ‘Pigs arse’ part of the Australian vanacular.)

  26. Chris says:

    Bravo – I’ve been teaching these manners to my kids for years (to the constant chorus of “why do we have too?”). Their mates come over for dinner and have no idea what constitutes good manners – it’s a sad indictment on our society today that they’re just not being taught these really basic behaviours.

    I’m going to stick this article on my fridge – kind of in a ‘I told you so” way!!! Thanks – it justifies my years of nagging!

  27. Jeffery Smart says:

    DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER. John Elliott deserves a medal for being so brave as to suggest that most Australians now have little if any manners or put another way haven’t any self respect or respect for others.
    The hospitality industry would head the list, and has a lot to answer for. They have gradually devolved the eating experience to eating like pigs at a trough on communal tables etc.. A good example at ground level, to see this “descent of man” is David Jones foodhall Melbourne. This was once a nice modern setting to lunch with good food and have a chat with a friend but has recently become a cheap tacky set of communal tables to eat and chat with 22 of your very closest friends.

  28. Carol-Anne Croker says:

    I think you are directing your criticism at the supposedly educated end of town. How sad that these common courtesies are unknown amongst some of the offspring of Australia’s wealthy sector. What hope then for the kids from the poorer areas, who do not eat together at a family meal table. Cannot use knives and forks (thanks to the US constant onslaught or right hand fork control), These kids parents do not cook, purchase cheaper unhealthy microwave meals or oven reheated meals, and eat whenever and where-ever the hunger burst takes hold. We are a nation who walk the streets of the CBD eating as we walk.
    The entire significance of the meal as celbration and communal bonding has been lost. Can refining manners really meet this challenge? I think not.

  29. Last week I was at my present home in Penang in Malaysia where I succumbed to a small operation that belies my sixty year old body. In my weakened state I had occasion to travel on a bus into the city. It was at that point of the day when the kids all descend from school. Much like home in Aus, the manners of these kids are appalling. I had a seat however before they arrived yet when an older lady with obvious faculty difficulties came aboard, I was the only one prepared to offer her a seat.

    I thought that the kids are at fault however in hindsight, it is their parents who fail to teach them. If my kids, when I was raising them had not stood for an older person and I knew about it, they would have had a thick ear.

    Something to be said about spare the rod and spoil the child.

  30. Kim Lennard says:

    Hi Jack,
    Great stuff.I met you once at the G at a blues and hawks game [ I'm a lifelong Hawks member and ex resident ].Lived in Wattle rd next to Jim and Phil Cairns.
    Dont want to give you the warm pocket treatment too much but Ive always admired you and I reckon youve been given the bums rush too often.
    I am really excited that you will be giving tips on manners as I, like you understand the importance and I want to make sure my kids know the basics-ie for my 12 yo son stand up when a lady comes to the table.
    I live on a farm in Northeast Vic at Devenish and I hope you have given up the fags as it would be great if you lived a bit longer than most smokers [ this from an ex smoker-18 years and I still miss it every day! ]
    All power to you Jack and keep[ it coming.
    If you need any really insightful info from the bush just let me know.
    Kind regards

    Kim Lennard
    Devenish via Benalla
    0357641416

  31. Peter says:

    Dear John,

    Thank you for drawing attention to poor manners and offering helpful advice. Certainly mobile phones are a curse, but one of my pet hates is people talking while an after dinner guest speaker is delivering his or her talk. Some people just can’t shut their gob for ten minutes and listen to another point of view. Another is ignoring RSVP. It is almost an historical curiosity as few seem to reply by the requested time. Anyway, good on you for trying to improve Australians manners.

  32. Geoff says:

    Welcome back.

    Love your work

    Geoff

  33. Peter Eckert says:

    Go Jack.
    Well done. Nice to read some etiquette. Australia needs leaders of all descriptions
    Keep up the good work.
    Peter Eckert
    Black Forest Optical
    Adelaide

  34. jeff says:

    Yes, but also it depends exactly where you are – in the Scandinavian countries for instance it is very important that you don’t drink from your wine or beer glass before the host has raised theirs to toast the company.

  35. Andrew says:

    Good advice Jack…now when my mrs tells me off for wolfing my counter meal as soon as its served I can say it’s good manners!!!!

  36. Michael Gorman says:

    John
    what about those old bugbears, asparagus and fish knives. I assume that asparagus should be eaten with fingers provided a finger bowl is available – but when was the last time you saw one! As for fish knives, I hear on the one hand that they are a vulgar relic of the Victorian era and on the other hand very desirable. What is your experience?

  37. mick says:

    hear! hear!

    well done john!

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